Wednesday, August 18, 2010

The WTF of WTFs

I'm used to Obama disappointing me, but this guy? Come onnnnnn.... I wish there was some way to... But... fuckin' A... This guy was supposed to represent the Liberal wing of the Democratic Party. Who's next to jump ship? Dennis Kucinich? Will anyone stand for what's right in this country?


Dale said...

Isn't building a mosque at ground zero sort of similar to if we had built a monument to U.S. bomber pilots at the spot where we dropped the bomb on Hiroshima? Except that we had a logical reason for doing that act in the first place.

Chris in Seattle said...


Chris in Seattle said...

Seriously, Dude, they're nothing alike.

First they're different countries, with different histories and different standards for freedom, tolerance, etc.

Second, what's proposed not "at" but "near" ground zero is not a monument to those who flew the planes. I know that's the official Faux News talking point, but it just isn't true.

Third, the attacks were different. "At the time," our use of the bomb was "sponsored" and "accepted" as an act of war, withing the "legal" confines of the Geneva Conventions. Looking back, the opinions are not the same in many ways. The Twin Towers attack was NOT an act of war. No nations were involved; there was no sponsorship beyond that of a rogue group of.... assholes. Assholes who happened to be Muslim, but were basically societal rejects, bouncing from country to country because no one wanted anything to do with them. For the most part.

Fourth, I'm as much at fault as about anyone when I refer to this as a mosque, because the reality is that it's a "community center," "Park 51" a small part of which is a mosque, with a memorial. Yes, it's being built/proposed by an Imam, but to service those who live in and visit the area. It's possibly more like the memorial at the Nazi camp at Dachau in Germany: Let us never forget, so that it never happens again.

Lastly, if Hawaiian born people of Japanese ancestry proposed a Shinto or Buddhist shrine at Pearl Harbor, or Japanese born whites/Americans/Europeans proposed a shrine at Hiroshima, as a peace offering, a somber reminder, etc I would defend them as well.

Dale said...

Actually, the attacks on the towers WAS an act of war. Muslims declared a Jihad on us. Jihad is a Holy War. Which is worse than just between two nations, because religions do not follow national borders.

Dale said...

I must admit, I didn't look at the map until just now to see how far it actually is from ground zero. According to the map it looks like ground zero isn't even visible from this place, so I stand corrected. However, if it were actually at ground zero, I would be totally against it.

Chris in Seattle said...

That's the thing: The idea of it being, "The Ground Zero Mosque," just is not true. even Faux... Laura Ingraham in particular was all for this a few months ago. This is a total disinformation cmpaign, just as the idea of Islam declaring war on the US. THAT is Bull shit. Osama bin Laden is not, was not the spokesman for Islam. He was a rogue asshole. I know what Jihad is and all that crap but there was wide spread support for the US and condemnation across the Arab/Muslim world after 9-11. It wasn't until Dubya pissed it all away with his, "See how big my dick is," diplomacy. The Taliban offered bin Laden to a third party for trial, and Dubya refused and attacked and there went the world's good will. The Holy War is an invention of the Wrong Wing, most notably Faux Noise.

Chris in Seattle said...

The anti-government, anti-tax asshole who flew his plane into the federal building not too long ago... I can't remember where it was... Are we now at war with anti-government, anti-tax assholes? Like Sarah Palin? Grover Nordquist? Sharon Angle? The entire Tea Bagger movement? The entire Refuckyoucan party? ???

Both were crimes. The Twin Towers attack was just way far gone on the horrendousness scale. WE declared it an act of war. Which just so happens to benefit insurance industry: The rules change in cases of acts of war.